Jordan Peterson in Russia Detoxing From Benzos After Near-Death Experience

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From National Post: “He’s alive because I know how to research, because my husband negotiates extremely well and speaks Russian, because my family was willing to trust us and take a huge and terrifying risk, because we’ve had extensive help from family, friends and supporters from all over the world who helped get him here, because we have access to money, and because we found a number of extremely gutsy and competent Russian nurses and doctors that were willing to take a risk.

It took a village and a lot of luck. His recovery has been unbelievable. He’s improving dramatically daily.

So let me make a couple of things clear:

1. This was not a case of psychological addiction. Benzodiazepine physical dependence due to the brain changes that can occur in a matter of weeks can destroy lives. It can be made even worse by paradoxical reactions that are difficult to diagnose. The medication almost killed my dad. He’s a psychologist and even he wasn’t aware of how bad these medications are for some people. Physical dependence can occur in a matter of a few weeks of daily use to biologically susceptible individuals.

2. Dad will recover fully but it will take time and he still has a ways to go.

3. We are extremely lucky and grateful that he’s alive.”

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70 COMMENTS

    • Because it’s interesting to demonstrate how other societies and cultures deal with neurological impairments and that the Russians have a neurological understanding far beyond the usual stuff about the secret police filling dissidents with antipsychotics to permanently disable them. Remember- Pavlov and AR Luria were Russians.

      • I am Russian and I can say that Russians certainly do not have “a neurological understanding far beyond the usual stuff”.

        In fact, Russian scientists are very ignorant and backward, and psychiatry here is just as bad as everywhere or even worse because stuff like haloperidol or amitriptyline is still prescribed routinely. However, due to the strict drug policies, you can’t find Ritalin, bupropion or modafinil here. Here is only one benzodiazepine available (Phenazepam), however it is very widely prescribed and not long ago there was not even prescription needed for this drug.

        Russian scientists study very enthusiastically “nootropics” like noopept or piracetam, which civilized world abandoned a long time ago.

        So I can tell you that Russians certainly don’t have any “revelations” about the brain beyond the West understanding, nor is here more humane and delicate approach to the human psyche.

        I agree that some scientists from USSR achieved some breakthrough results, but now there is nothing unusual happening in Russian science. Sad, but true.

        I wonder why even JP does detox in Russia and not somewhere else?

        • Yes, but if they aren’t brilliant, they’re terrible. They don’t do well with ordinary medicine, which also can’t criticize the totalitarian thinking their governments seem to traditionally have, going back to tsarist days, which the Russians have had to endure since the days of Ivan the Terrible, some 500 years ago. When their doctors are good, they’re very, very good, but when they’re bad, they’re awful. AR Luria took grief from Stalin for work he did in the 30’s, but was probably saved from the GULAG by WW2, when 10% of the population suffered significant brain damage, thanks to the Wehrmacht.

    • He’s got over a million youtube subscribers, and he’s a pretty well known, albeit controversial, right wing speaker worldwide. I’ve been thinking for some time that he should be speaking out against the psych drugs, since he’s a psychologist. Guess he may be doing such in the future? Or at least one can hope, since our movement could use some outspoken, high profile, advocates.

      It is a pretty pathetic statement about North America’s “mental health” systems, that he had to go to Russia to find doctors who would wean him off the neurotoxic benzos. Although, it’s not too surprising for those of us here.

      • I wouldn’t really classify him as “right wing.” He’s kind of “wingless,” says what he thinks with no real allegiance to any political viewpoint and offends both ends of the political spectrum. Though some right wing folks have attached themselves to some of the things he has said, because they can be made to fit the right-wing narrative. But in my view, he’s an equal opportunity offender.

        • We here could use an outspoken, honest, critical “equal opportunity offender.” Since we are just a bunch of mere humans, fighting a monster of a scientific fraud based, iatrogenic illness creating, mass murdering, primarily and by DSM design systemic child abuse covering up, defamatory, group of multibillion dollar, DSM “bible” thumping industries. “Mental health” industries that employ many, many people, most of whom do not want to end their reign of error and terror.

          I hope MiA considers reaching out to Jordan Peterson, in the hope he will allow MiA to interview him and/or publish his story. As mentioned, I have been thinking Jordan should be speaking out against psychiatry for a while now.

          Since certainly, the psychiatric industry has proven over and over again that it will not give up it’s undeserved power willingly, and they do not bother to listen to or believe their clients. So the psychologists really do need to speak out against the iatrogenic harm being done by the psychiatrists.

          https://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/directors/thomas-insel/blog/2015/mortality-and-mental-disorders.shtml
          https://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/directors/thomas-insel/blog/2013/transforming-diagnosis.shtml

          8 million deaths a year, every year, based upon the “invalid” DSM psychiatric disorders is more killing than the Nazi psychiatric holocaust of the Jews, every year! Our modern day psychiatric holocaust needs to end.

        • It makes sense. He criticizes both liberals and conservatives and he even studies the psychological behaviours and characteristics of both groups. There’s a video on YouTube where he says he’s not right-wing, but, if I had to peg him, I would say JP’s very conservative.

          • Conservative: JP (I’m reading his “12 Rules”) advocates for order.

            Clean up your room, clean up your life. Make your choices and stick to them. The Order of Society as it is has evolved over time and humans have it better than ever. The forces of Chaos need not apply. (briefly)

            So in favour of Order = conservative.

        • I don’t consider him “right wing” either, that’s just a neoliberal way of reducing him to a stereotype.

          What I’m wondering is whether the AP movement may be on the verge of having a new spokesperson — especially considering he & his family figured this stuff out on their own. Weren’t we just talking about the harm celebrity psych-pushers are doing? This might provide some balance.

          • That was not my attempt, oldhead. I am not a “neoliberal.” But I think most people on this website do lean liberal, so I thought they might consider him to be “right wing.” Pardon the controversial comment, but please do not attribute untrue motivations to it.

            I do agree with you that it’d be great if JP joined our movement, though, because he is an excellent public speaker, whether you agree with much of what he says, or not.

          • That wasn’t directed at you Someone, it was a general statement. Peterson does say some stuff that could be considered right wing, but I think he’s more of a libertarian. (Lots of people who call themselves “leftists” make these charges, however they themselves are actually liberals who support capitalism.)

            I don’t think MIA is capable of reaching out to Peterson in a way that would be helpful, as it continues to distance itself from the anti-psychiatry movement. However those who are clear about psychiatry being an illegitimate pretense at medicine not subject to “reform” (you know who you are) should make an active effort to bring Peterson into the fold.

        • I agree that he’s not quite right wing in the usual, explicitly political sense. But I do think he’s highly reactionary and patriarchal, and in a very seductive way that attracts a lot of men, especially young men, who are at lose ends…which an awful lot of men are these days. His whole spiel about serotonin and the naturalness or inevitability of competition and hierarchy in human societies really makes you wonder how he ever got an appointment at Harvard; it’s just an insidious piece of patriarchal drivel. It goes something like: lobsters have serotonin and are competitive, territorial loners who live in a strict hierarchy; people have serotonin, therefore people are competitive territorial loners…and etc. There’s more to it than that, but it’s an extraordinary example of cherry picking to support a preconceived conclusion. Anyway, I thought the guy was interesting at first but was appalled the more I looked into him, even though I’m sorry he had to go through this ordeal and hope that maybe he will use his notoreity now to make people aware of the dangers of these drugs.

          p.s. He also has a whole rant about how “post-modernist neo-Marxists” have ruined academia and are now out to get the world. How in the hell can you be a post-modern Marxist? It’s a contradiction in terms on the face of it, and basically his way of saying that any departure from the good ol’ days of western modernist-capitalism is bad, bad, bad.

          • how about getting behind the issue at hand like Benzo Warrior is doing in their open letter to JP.
            https://www.benzowarrior.com/benzo-warrior-blog/2020/2/13/dr-jordan-peterson-youre-not-an-addict-and-we-need-your-help

            Thanks for linking this article, Rossa. It’s excellent information, including:

            “As the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition pointed out, pneumonia is often treated with fluoroquinolone antibiotics, which block benzodiazepines from binding the GABAa receptors and thus can make withdrawal many times worse and should be avoided at all costs.”

            In other words, he may have been floxed. It’s vital that people on benzos are given this information.

          • Rossa, I’m afraid the idea that there is bickering going on here escapes me. It sure seemed to me like a few of us were discussing an interesting and to some of us disturbing aspect of this guy, while also hoping he will do something helpful with his experience. I always hope that we on this site will make a full break with psychiatry’s insistence on simplistic conformity and value a diversity of views but, alas, I am often disappointed on that count.

            p.s. Actually, now that I think of it, the discussion above was directly relevant to what we discuss on this site. Peterson has been a staunch upholder of the same authoritarian, patriarchal social norms which also infuse psychiatry. I think it’s worth knowing that as we follow where all this goes with him. Maybe something like this is enough to make someone like Peterson question his old assumptions, which I think he would have to do to be helpful to anti-psychiatry. Maybe it’s not. I hope so. It’ll be interesting to see.

          • Well, I would say someone’s politics have quite a lot to do with it. People who are stuck in and actively promoting authoritarian patriarchy tend to be pretty happy with psychiatry. If experiences like the one described here help people move out of that stance, that’s important. That’s my take on it, or at least a very simple and generalized nutshell; I’d be interested to hear yours.

            Beyond that, I guess I never quite understand why people here often get so upset by and critical towards others who are discussing topics that interest them. This may sound snarky but I actually mean it honestly: it often feels to me like people here have internalized psychiatry’s intolerance for alternative views and lively discussion. Why not embrace it instead, or at least let others pursue what interests them and hold off on the criticism, which seems pretty harsh here. Why not treat each other with respect? Oh well, probably a silly question, I know.

          • @Daniel Smith – there are absurdities on the left, too, who are deeply in support of psychiatry.

            They want the homeless to have “treatment,” they want their kids to have access to “treatment,” in fact, “‘Treatment’ for all!” (this is the danger with Bernie) “Equal access to ‘treatment’!”

            It is not in the best interests of the left to acknowledge that there is no chemical imbalance, that diagnosis is diag-nonsense. It just doesn’t seem “compassionate” or “progressive” enough.

            Humph and Humbug.

            To liberate from Diag-nonsense and “Treatment” is just too far for the left to acknowledge. They are too busy choosing PC language for addressing “stigma” to acknowledge that the emperor is naked.

          • JanCarol–yes, I think there’s a lot to what you say. I don’t think it’s really a left-right issue in the usual, superficial sense. I guess I’m not sure where the disagreement is?

          • “They are too busy choosing PC language for addressing “stigma” to acknowledge that the emperor is naked.”

            Remember that book Games People Play. They sit and discuss what they can do about stigma by changing words while in the locked ward next to the lunch room there are people being tortured lol. It’s like something out of a Hogans Heroes script.

            Hang on to the Tigers Belt

          • Well, I would say someone’s politics have quite a lot to do with it.

            WTF??? So “we” only need to give a shit about so-called “leftists” abused by psychiatry?

          • It is not in the best interests of the left to acknowledge that there is no chemical imbalance

            Actually it is, Jan. But most so-called leftists are actually liberals, which is pretty much the opposite of “left.” Those who sincerely want to defeat this system also have a serious interest in exposing and defeating psychiatry.

            I think “left” and “right” are meaningless terms at this point, since they have no consistent definitions. Marx, Lenin and Mao are rolling over in their graves I’m sure.

          • Chomsky said that left and right were both wings of the same party, the Business Party. I even heard one of our radio announcers going on about how long the election campaign takes in the US (gee imagine democracy at work taking time). Ours lasts about 5 weeks, and he claims we’re sick of it after that. Yes but …… our parties don’t put forward what they intend doing once they achieve power before elections, they ‘spring’ that on us later when it’s too late to say but it’s not what the community wants (but it is what doctors want). The other thing is our system is a farce designed to look like fair and democratic elections, not to actually be one. Making people vote in a two horse race is not what I’d call elections, either way your betting on a horse (and thus can be considered to be a gambler). Still the country is young and we have only just begun to recognise people of color as humans recently.
            No left and right in my State, just a bunch of elites that know that they get power with or without the consent of the people. The Mental Health Act is part of ensuring that this situation continues.

          • “Chomsky said that left and right were both wings of the same party,” I agree. And it is the globalist banksters who control both sides, and who push this divide and conquer theology.

            Which, by the way, is a war tactic, intended to destroy America from within. And the psychiatrists and psychologists are the banksters’ and religions’ pedophilia covering up minion.

            https://www.amazon.com/Pedophilia-Empire-Chapter-Introduction-Disorder-ebook/dp/B0773QHGPT

            https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/dutch-banker-ronald-bernard-blows-the-whistle-on-worlds-satanic-elite/

            “I think ‘left’ and ‘right’ are meaningless terms at this point, since they have no consistent definitions.” Very true. But many still don’t seem to garner insight into this reality.

  1. I posted this link on my Facebook account in 2017. It’s about a clinic in Kyrgyzstan. On my post I commented that I had earlier met a psychiatrist in Porto, Portugal, who was doing the same thing for Porto’s street people, many of whom had addictions and AIDS.

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/znw4z8/curing-heroin-addiction-coma-kyrgyzstan

    “The centre claims that 80 percent of its patients stay drug free for at least a year after receiving treatment there. Many of those it treats come from Russia or the former Soviet Union but there’s no shortage of domestic customers. Heroin use has drastically increased in Kyrgyzstan over the last decade. The last official estimate, in 2006, put the number of intravenous drug users in the country at 26,000. According to Dr Alexander Zelichenko, Director of the Central Asian Centre on Drug Policy, there may now be around 100,000 users in a country with a population just below 5.6 million.”

    “But rapid detox is only one part of the treatment. Of greater importance is what the centre calls “mindcrafting” – a blend of meditation, counselling and Jungian psychoanalysis. Its aim is to rebuild the patient’s self-esteem and give them the “strength of mind to keep one step ahead of others in the context of globalisation, with its rapid development of information technology and the rule of money and stress.”

    • I don’t quite think it is fair to compare heroin to benzos or SSRIs.

      Heroin can clean up rapidly (it’s the patterns of re-behaviouring that are critical). Benzos put their fingers deeply into your neurotransmitter and cortisol system, and to extract them quickly is dangerous.

  2. This is what’s needed:-

    “….Of greater importance is what the centre calls “mindcrafting” – a blend of meditation, counselling and Jungian psychoanalysis. Its aim is to rebuild the patient’s self-esteem and give them the “strength of mind to keep one step ahead of others in the context of globalisation, with its rapid development of information technology and the rule of money and stress.”…”

  3. This is Serious Mum

    I’m on the drug that Killed River Phoenix (or, he’ll never be an old man River)

    I saw his body thrashing round.
    I saw his pulse rate going down.
    I saw him in convulsive throes.
    I said “I’ll have one of those.”

    And they say (police and mental health services) I can be ‘spiked’ with this stuff because I wouldn’t take it willingly? What next, they want to pour Bourbon down my throat and follow with some pork crackling? And i’m the one who is nutz? Think again fools.

  4. Different benzos have different effects on different persons, and that’s not even counting so-called “paradoxical” effects…. Of course, neither PhRMA, nor the pseudoscience drug racket of psychiatry is AT ALL interested in studying these things…. I would hope that something like “pharmaco-genetics” is part of Mr. Jordan Peterson’s treatment…. He’s a valuable voice, with a valuable point of view to counteract the media Corporate brainwashing propaganda…..

  5. He’s still taking anti-seizure medication, and he can’t type or walk steadily yet.

    This is from the full article.

    What drug is this? Since benzos ARE anti-seizure drugs, did he just go from one benzo to another? Or is he on lamictal, gabapentin, or some other anti-seizure drug? All of these types of drugs can cause physical dependency and need to be tapered, a concept noticeably left out of this article.

    The doctors here aren’t influenced by the pharmaceutical companies, don’t believe in treating symptoms caused by medications, by adding in more medications and have the guts to medically detox someone from benzodiazepines.

    This is also from the article. It sounds like this rehab DID “treat” benzo withdrawal by adding in another drug (unless this was a drug he was already on).

    I hope Peterson finds the information about the importance of a slow taper. Otherwise, he may be in for another ride through hell if and when he decides to come off this mystery drug he’s currently taking.

    And if he walks away a believer in rehab, any message he puts out there may do more harm than good – there are few (if any) rehabs out there that believe in doing a micro-taper over many years. And for some people, that’s the best way off.

    • I’d add: for MOST people tapering is the way off. And for Benzos, which are insidious – the microtaper seems to be the best way off.

      Yes, I’d like to know what “antiseizure” drug he is on. In Russia, it could be Phenibut which hits GABA receptors – but is more likely to be gabapentin or pregabalin. All of this, however, is a guess.

      And YES – “go have a fast detox” is NOT a good recommendaion. We have hoards of people suffering from this approach – they beg us at SA – “can I just check into hospital and get off this?” The answer is no. This will cause harm.

  6. Sounds like JP needs some analysis and reconsideration of the entire logic of psychiatric labeling. If I were Peterson or just about any well-known person I would be “anxious” too. It’s a survival mechanism.

    His daughter said the next youtube message would be from him personally, so that should be interesting.

  7. If after this horror, he is willing to listen, no better place than here for him. In any event he will not be the same person and will not be able to carry on as before. Most people who suffer the toxic horror to that extent usually kill themselves. We need to make an effort to engage him. I emailed his daughter…you never know.

      • OH and anyone else, if you look up Mikhaila Peterson on YouTube and go to the ‘about’ you can find an email address for her. Didn’t get a reply myself but I do think people should attempt to contact her.

        People who get into this horror and look for further treatments usually find themselves either back to square one or even worse. There are no ways to get your GABA receptors back other than time and not doing anything that makes it worse ie drinking alcohol going and or back on any other GABA drugs.

  8. Jordan Peterson would likely word bomb anyone calling him right wing. He sees himself as a counter to the Sanders & Canadian PC Marxist post-mod PC academics etc. I see him as right wing, libertarian or not. Seeing him on Tucker Carlson’s show discussing “Male Youth In Crises” or some such loaded Fox “News” topic was not the deciding factor for where he stands politically in my estimation. Peterson is very smart, very good debater & knows how to bate & monetize the SJW left. He also knows where his book audience gets their news. Given the topic on Carlson’s show it was ironic that Peterson himself looked zombified & in very bad shape. Now we know why. Given his speaking & book schedule & his wife’s illness it’s not surprising he had to take something to keep going. He knew what he was doing, he has his best seller, he’s very rich & I hope his wife is ok.

    I spent a week taking Benzos before I threw them out. The first Tweet I saw about Peterson in Russia was a rant that Peterson is lying & treatment in Russia is a scheme to park his money tax free offshore. I would guess a little bit of each. He’s sick, he’s rich, he’s getting treatment while parking his money who knows where. Russians are specialists in this area for sure.

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